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PROFESSIONAL ENTRY LEVEL FOR NURSING
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Posted 3 months ago There has been ongoing debate on whether the BSN should be considered the entry level for the status of "professional". California and other states are looking into this. What are your thoughts? |
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| Posted 3 months ago It has been tried before. I do not think it will happen Ginny |
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| Posted 3 months ago Cd in management were are discussing different countries perspective on health care, insurance and education of nurses. Most of the countries that we have done so far they are either a four year minimum or they are changing there standards and making it mandatory that there nurses have bachelors in order to practice. We have talked and debated over and over that will this change the outcome of out pt's? It has also been brought up that at least in NY our phy. ther. Majors have to have a bachelors to practice and many other professions why not nursing.... I get it that it has been talked about over and over and i don't think that it will ever come to some decision about what to do.. It is a tough call and many AsN programs produce a lot of well trained and professional nurses.. Not too mention that the 4 year programs are so expensive and many people cannot afford to do it all at once. If they decide to allow people to still receive there AsN and give them a time frame in which to complete the BSN then this would be fair. Many to do not have the time nor resources to complete the 4 year and still survive... Okay step off the soap box now... Jessie |
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| Posted 3 months ago I think with the nursing shortage, this would be prohibitive. You want to further enhance the lack of nurses, then make a BSN mandatory. You only receive the basic principles of management in a four year program. You have to apply them and some of the worst managers I have ever worked under are BSN's. The best managers I have ever worked for are ADN's or Diploma grads. I don't understand why, someone has to have a BSN to get ahead in nursing anymore. Apparently experience means absolutely nothing. You either have the finesse and capabilities of management or you don't. A degree does not a good manager make. Deb |
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| Posted 3 months ago I think that nurses are always learning throughout their careers. I think that it is a way of encouraging nurses to further their education. We are in desperate need of teachers now. I hope to go on to my Bachelor's, but like gunnjess says, having the money to do it is the trick. |
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| Posted 3 months ago dmazement, you are on to something there. Either you have the nack for management or you don't.. Not everyone is cut out for the position of authority... I have heard it said too many times where i go to school that we BSN grads think way too much about things... Which i find myself over thinking things all the time and making it harder than it has to be... I feel in my opinion that ASN grads certainly have something that i don't think i will have.. Not sure what, but it's something alright..
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| Posted 3 months ago mramsey40 said: I went to a forum not too long ago and they talked about how in NYstate they want to make this mandatory and grandfather in some and those graduating give them a set amount of time before they have to obtain that BSN degree. They stated (along with the ump teen state legislators that were there) that b/c many other programs require a higher entry level degree and are seen as "professional careers" than nursing should also hold that high standard of their nurses. They talked about us like we were chattel.. I think that with the shortage like before they will turn them down to implement this... NY state is funny like that, and not to mention MONEY is a factor for many.. They just cut a bunch of our funding for schools state wide... Not sure if you guys are seeing it to but here it is bad. Second, why are they all of a sudden worried about the difference, i know that we are lacking educators, but many of our schools want teachers with MSN and not just a BSN... So are you damned if you do and damned if you don't????? Gotta wonder what the next step would be if this does go through >>>> Make it mandatory that all nurses have to have there MSN.... when does it end... School isn't getting any cheaper... Okay sorry it is a soap box of mine and i get really upset when they try to do this when economic stimulus is already down... sorry guys/.. Jessie D:)) |
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| Posted 3 months ago They already started this in Canada. i agree Jessie D:))! !!!!!!!!!!! RNs are not Doctors they should not require a BSN? An Associates degree is just fine!!!!!! if thats the case Nurse Practioners should require a PHD (not masters) and Doctors should Require 30 years of school then CNAs should get an Associate degree! lol. it's like a non- stop thinkg "when in life can you finally stop school" and enjoy your family or be educationally secure and get married, it's so dumb to constantly keep going to school. I should have chosen another profession! i hate nursing now! i dhould of done dental hygienist (i'm very discouraged). In Canada LPNs are now called Registered Practical Nurses And Canada RNs need a Bachelor degree to practice?
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| Posted 3 months ago LoveNursing2009 said: Many other countries such as Lebanon, Ireland, france and a few others also have the same requirements and if they don't they are implementing that all nurses entering into there program are now required to obtain the bachelors degree. I am in a BSN program and the reason i chose that is because i started out to be a Dr. I changed mid way through my education... I just don't think that with the deficit in nursing in the states right now they can make that mandation.. I think what they can do is state that nurses who enter a ASN or ADN program have a set amount of time to obtain a BSN. This i think would be acceptable to people.. I believe that the forum discussed that they would have to complete this with in ten year from the date of graduation that they would have to complete this... Don't quote me on that one... I am so sorry that you hate nursing at this point... Just remember that we (most of us) go into this field for the patient.. That is what keeps me going... Knowing that i am a person who can speak for those who may not be able to or those whose voices can't be heard when they are trying so hard to say something... I hope that you can find your way to love this field again. My heart goes out to you for loosing your passion.... and thank you for the website i am going to check it out.,,,, Jessie D :)) |
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| Posted 3 months ago Many thoughtful and thought-provoking comments on this one. All I can say is I know what I want and where I am going and this will not change that for me. I am pursuing my RN, ASN and will go on for my BSN at least. Yes, I wonder and my husband and daughter wonder will I get done with school. Maybe Maybe not, but I will keep Learning until the day I die and I imagine will most of the great folks on this site. We will continue to educate ourselves and our patients. Too bad they don't figure out a way to give more people credit for the on the job learning they obtain when working as a RN, ASN. or even a LPN. |
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| Posted 3 months ago gunnjess, did you have clinical experience your first year? Deb |
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| Posted 3 months ago There is nothing wrong with ADN education. ADN nurses graduate ready to work, and lack only the management and research components of a BSN program. I agree with cd: the ANA has tried pushing BSN as entry level for years and failed. It is not cost effective for hospitals during a worsening nursing shortage. |
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| Posted 3 months ago dmazment said: Dmazement, The first year i started nursing i didn't have clincials. I did a lot of nursing theory. I started clinicals my second year in the program... I know many ADN or ASN programs start clincials right from the day they start classes. Our program does do a lot of clincial hours and our last semester which we are doing now we do 86 hours in critical care with a preceptor and 84 hours bridging as well as 100+ hours in community health..We cover many areas in community such as maternal preventative health, environmental, visiting nurses, hospice, schools, indian nation clinics and a few more. I know that we do a lot of theory and the last two years of our program becomes clincially intesive. If you have any other questions let me know.... I will be more than happy to answer them.. Thanks for asking Jessie |
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| Posted 3 months ago I think this is where most BSN programs go wrong. Clinical education should begin immediately and continue throughout the four years. I know Frances Payne Bolton school of nursing at Case Western Reserve University, in Cleveland Ohio, starts their students from the very first clinically and they have an outstanding reputation for excellent RN's. When you're learning nursing theory, you need to put it into practice as you're learning rather than a year later. I think this is a large part of why so many BSN's over think because they have not had this opportunity. It's difficult to relearn and nursing students should be learning this from the first day. This is how you learn to think like a nurse. Deb |
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| Posted 3 months ago I think most of you are aware that there is an incredible nursing shortage in this country. When you think about supply and demand in economics. When the supply is not there, the demand gets to demand more. ALthough I have been in this industry for a short period of time, I have seen savy nurse professionals ask for substantially more in perks, benefits and even salary. Not only are they asking but their demands are being met. This may change as more choose the nursing profession. But they recieve more because they are asking for it. I am a career manager for the nursing professional. I guess I am saying ....don't take on the burden of paying for your education....go to your employer and ask them if they will pay for it. You may find that they really want to keep you happy and agree to it. Wouldn't that just make you beam! Everything in life is negotiable. You can also see if there is a better opportunity available for you by using a career manager, consultant like myself. Check out my website @ www.onesourcehealthcareers.com. We are a very great resource and our services are free to candidate professionals like yourselves. I am paid by the employer so I know if your happy, their happy. And they truly have incredible shortages that need to be met. |
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| Posted 3 months ago Dmazement, I have said the same thing from the get go.. That is a huge reason why we over think things in my opinion. We finally get the chance our last semester when you up the anty to put all the pieces together. It takes us this long to finally get to where we should have been two years ago.. There is no reason in the world why we shouldn't start off putting theory to practice.
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| Posted 3 months ago You know what....with the amount of material that is thrown at us in nursing school we are doing just as much if not more work in two years than some professions do in four! (I know we don't get the management but we are highly trained). I think requiring a BSN as entry is a bunch of BS! Stacie |
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| Posted 3 months ago sorry everyone...I am just having a bad day Stacie |
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| Posted 3 months ago It's ok kendbeef and you made a valid point. The only things I didn't do, gunnjenn has said they're doing is public health, visiting nurses and native american health clinics, ( of which there were no native american health clinics where I lived). So.....perhaps I was just fortunate where I went to college for my ADN. Deb |
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| Posted 3 months ago Most of the recent arguments for making the BSN the entry-level requirement are based on the Aiken study of 2003, which built on earlier research and purported to perform a longitudinal study of patient outcomes for ADN vs. BSN prepared nurses. Subsequent studies cited by groups arguing for the baccalaurate degree as entry-level are actually referential studies to the Aiken study, for the most part. The flaw in the logic is that the Aiken study utilized flawed research methodology and poor sampling techniques, including doctorally prepared and masters' prepared nurses in the grouping of BSN-level categories, among other issues. One also must consider that a large number of BSN degreed nurses began as ADN degreed nurses - possibly even the majority. Therefore the study also failed to consider years of clinical practice as an associate- or diplomate- level nurse when factoring in BSN degree nurses. All of this goes to the point that the research can be made to say what the interpreter wishes it to mean, in many cases. However, the majority of other studies, such as the Davis-Martin study in 1992, the Masters study of 1989, and the 1987 Pardue study, among many others, show little difference in clinical skills, quality of care, or outcome between ADN, BSN, or MSN prepared nurses. But because that doesn't get more funding for university nursing schools and research programs, nobody wants to mention it ... Ted Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards. (Kierkegaard) |
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| Posted 3 months ago I moved from a hospital that was becoming very focused on having a BSN only workforce and it was dreadful. The nurses who graduated from an ADN program got standard orientation whereas the BSN grads got a fantastic almost year long ongoing program above and beyond standard orientation. I once asked why the ADNs were not eligible and was told that "they will never be management people so they don't need it" I was horrified. Way to discriminate. |
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| Posted 2 months ago Im a diploma RN and well spent alot more time in clinical than our bsn counterparts. I am going to look into the online programs to continue. But the nursing shortage I would Think we would be glad to have all the he lp we can get. |