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Put them in jail, don't baby them

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Posted 3 months ago

 

that is the mindset of most of our coutry. Look at the following.


Ginny

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Here we go again. Giving me trouble with pasting in here.


Ginny

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aaaaagggghhhhh. Give me time to figure out why this damn thing will not accept what I am trying to put in here. aaaaaaggggghhhh


Ginny

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With her youthful face and mellow disposition, 22-year-old Corrie Pallone doesn’t come across like someone who should be in prison.


But there she was, her long thick hair covering her shoulders, sitting at a table inside a cinder block visitors room wearing a state-issued uniform. An armed guard stood outside the door.


Pallone is not one of the many felons who say, “I didn’t do it.”


To the contrary, she apologized for getting hooked on methamphetamine and involved in an auto theft ring.


“It was a big mistake in my life,” Pallone said.


Her biggest regrets have to do with her toddler daughter. “I feel so guilty for doing this to her,” Pallone saidsaid. “I want to do good for her.”


Pallone, sentenced to 16 to 48 months behind bars after pleading guilty to burglary and possession of stolen vehicles, is an example of a nonviolent offender who Clark County Deputy Public Defender Brigid Hoffman thinks should have been put on probation with intensive supervision or sent to a short-term minimum security boot camp.


“What are we accomplishing by locking up someone like that for up to 48 months?” Hoffman said.


A high-school dropout whose one prior offense was a misdemeanor petty larceny, Pallone said she would have benefitted from a program that offers drug treatment and job training skills.


“I had a drug problem, I really did, so a more structured program would have helped,” she said. “I go to Narcotics Anonymous here, but it’s more group stuff. I would take one-on-one counseling more seriously because it would be addressed to me personally. Just give me a chance.”


Pallone didn’t get that chance. After more than five months at the county jail in downtown Las Vegas, she was transferred to the Florence McClure Women’s Correctional Center in North Las Vegas.


The public defender’s office says the prison system has many nonviolent Nevada inmates like Pallone who would have benefitted from alternative sentencing, particularly addiction treatment.


Terrance Thomas, a 34-year-old father of three and former janitor, for example, is in prison, for the fourth time since 1993, on bad check and drug charges.


Thomas pleaded guilty March 6 to possession of crack cocaine, but was given a suspended sentence of 19 to 48 months and placed on probation with the conditions he attend counseling and do community service.


Two days before he was to meet with his probation officer on March 18 and make plans to enroll in a drug-treatment center, he was arrested by a Metro Police officer for jaywalking. The officer found a bag of marijuana on Thomas, which led authorities to revoke his probation.


“I did what I did so I’m no angel, but I deserve a chance to get treatment,” he said. “I want to get my act together. I’m not a violent offender. I don’t go off robbing people. I’m not a mass murderer or a child pornographer.”


Though he has smoked marijuana since he was 14 and became a repeat drug offender, Thomas has never been in any treatment program since he began drifting in and out of the penal system 15 years ago, he said.


In hindsight, Thomas said, he wished he had been able to make that appointment with his probation officer and enroll in a treatment program.


“I would have taken it more seriously because I didn’t want to come back here,” he said. “But they just put me on a back burner and I took it like that. I didn’t know that getting caught with marijuana was going to send me back to prison.”


The public defender’s office’s other examples include:


• A 21-year-old Mexican man who came to this country illegally with his family as a teen. Sexually abused as a child, he began drinking alcohol at age 11 and turned to cocaine and methamphetamine as a teen. He voluntarily entered a drug-treatment program and did well for awhile, but relapsed and this year was arrested for auto theft and burglary.


A first-time offender who had worked as a house painter, the defendant was sentenced to one to three years in prison.


“After he is out of prison he will most likely be sent back to Mexico,” Deputy Public Defender Amy Johnson said. “He had mitigating circumstances because of the sexual abuse, the fact that he tried to get help before the relapse and because it’s a nonviolent crime and a first-time offense. His wife is from here and his kids were born here. But now his family is gone. It’s shattered. He has lost any chance of having a united family in the United States.”


“If it were up to me, I would have ordered him into a drug-treatment program. We’re just paying for his prison time before we deport him.”


• A 42-year-old U.S. citizen, originally from Mexico, who worked in construction. He had no record until he was arrested in 2005 on arson charges after an apartment blaze that started after his shirt and later his bed caught on fire. Having been under the influence of both methamphetamine and alcohol, he was hospitalized for mental health issues, charged with first-degree arson and later granted probation.


Chief Deputy Public Defender Jason Frierson said the defendant received mental health counseling and was drug-free for two years before a 2007 arrest for possession of a meth pipe.


That arrest resulted in additional probation conditions, but his probation was revoked late last year after he admitted to his probation officer that he again had used drugs. He wound up sentenced to 12 to 32 months behind bars


 


Ginny

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At last, I got the thing to go in there.


Ginny

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This is a good topic. I think that it is sad that such an issue needs to be addressed.


Karen Swift Jackson RN

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Rate This | Posted 3 months ago

 

Well I have a lot of mixed feeling reviewing those cases. My mom served jail time for possession of meth and it was most likely the only thing that saved her life. She served like 6 months (I think) then was ordered to several programs including AA, some other narcotic program and a woman’s narcotic support group. The Woman’s group is where I saw true difference in my mom. It was like I had a mother back after 15 years. If she had been in prison I am not sure if the prison support system would have been as good as the woman’s program. 


I empathize with the woman in the first scenario. Losing her small child while being in jail may have slapped her in the face and into realization that she needed sobriety and HELP. But the others I am not so sure, I think they would all benefit from some cold cells, crappy food and very limited freedoms.


There was a Saturday night skit that showed a woman proud that her son has "never been arrested" and she announced that she "fed her kids..." (But isn’t that what your supposed to do?!?!?!)


~Same thing. You’re not supposed to break the law.  What ever ramifications the courts decide to punish you for breaking the law is entirely up to them. No whining allowed.


 

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Rate This | Posted 3 months ago

 

I think that sometimes, jail or juvenille detention can really make a positive effect on someone.  Not all teenagers or young adults will reep the benefits like others but I think we must hold them accountable just like adults. 


Taylor's Wife, Navy Wife Proud and Strong!
Whose gonna fight the fight...When the last Warrior is gone???...His KIDS!

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I agree on the topic


A good man loves God and lives well....but
an extraordinary man loves God and lives well among others

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Rate This | Posted 3 months ago

 

That is some very interesting stories the sad part about is the only way anyone can try to make a difference in the lives of people like that is to change our feild of work become a lawyer or a judge and try to help get better sentences for peolpe that we believe don't deserve some of the time they get for the crimes they commit

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Rate This | Posted 3 months ago

 

Thank you for bringing up this very important topic. I wish I had some brilliant idea to offer as "the answer" to the problem, but I surely don't. As has been stated, sometimes incarceration is just the jolt a person needs to get back on track. On the other hand, is jail really the place for someone who is ill? 


Good healthy discussion of this topic might help to advance our practice as a country, as well as as nurses.


~Christina

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Rated: +1 | Posted 3 months ago

 

The problem is that the  "War on Drugs" is all about punishment and not about treatment. Addictions need to be treated, not punished.


Ginny

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Rate This | Posted 3 months ago

 

I always encourage my female inmates to join female only programs when they are released. As females they need the support that they will not get from men. 


Ginny

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Rate This | Posted 3 months ago

 

I agree with you Ginny. I think that treatment can help, but only if they are willing...sometimes they aren't.


Taylor's Wife, Navy Wife Proud and Strong!
Whose gonna fight the fight...When the last Warrior is gone???...His KIDS!

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Rated: +1 | Posted 3 months ago

 

Perhaps incarceration in a drug rehab facility rather than prison would be beneficial.  This way, they'd get mandatory counseling, be held accountable, but not considered criminals, job/career help and counseling and perhaps education.  The healthcare professionals through evaluations etc should be the ones who decide release dates, not the courts.


Deb
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lily tomlin

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Rate This | Posted 3 months ago

 

deb: yes, yes, yes. LIfe skills training is so improtant for this group.


Ginny

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Rated: +1 | Posted 3 months ago

 

Treatment is easier said then done. They have to want it for it to succeed.


Who pays for the treatment?


*Samantha*
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Rated: +1 | Posted 3 months ago

 

This topic is very personal to me.  I have a brother now 26 who just got out of prision in April and went when he was 17 for meth related charges non violent 1st time offender.  At 17 he was given 20 yrs serve 10.  He has 2 girls which were babies and I raised up until this past year. How can you take a 17 year old boy and throw him in a prision and let him out and thats it other than the parole officers monthly payment.  He is now angry and bitter cant find work nor get assistance with the girls.  There are no programs or assistance once these guys/girls get out to get them ready for the outside world.  I know he is lost and just sits and wonders what he is going to do next because he has to provide for his kids but has no H.S. or training so whats left?  I think many prisioners are faced with this problem.  Now I think there are different levels of crimes even when dealing with murder, so the only way to fix the system in my opinion is the same as we do care plans with goals and expectations which should continue even after being released, so that they are not thrown right back in the same situation.  As far as paying for it the tax payers are going to end up paying one way or the other so wouldnt it be smarter to invest from the begining and be done instead of paying forever?  Thats just my opinion.  Good Topic

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Rated: +1 | Posted 3 months ago

 

Good topic, Ginny.  You know it touches my heart and soul.  Being in recovery and fortunately have not been in jail or a cemetery, I have many views and opinions on this subject.  Fortunately for me, being under supervision of the State Board of Nursing for over 3 years was enough sentence for me!  I spent too much time learning and working in nursing for my license to be taken away from me for an inaminate object!  Unfortunately, it takes what it takes for people to recover.  Sometimes it is jail, sometimes it is rehab, sometimes it is one on one, women's group, religion and faith, children, spouses, sickness.....on and on......I guess basically what I am trying to say is that it is individual for everyone and CACs, nurses, physicians are the ones that should decide the treatment in conjunction with the judge and insurance companies.  And, isn't it awful that the people with the "good" insurance get the lousy treatment ( you have to fail outpatient rehab first before you can be admitted to an inpatient unit - hopefully, you do not kill anyone in the process! )Ahhh,,,,,,,nice topic....could go on for hours...but must pay the bills, now. 


Thanks for the topic,


Lisa  

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Rate This | Posted 3 months ago

 

Well I think a couple billion dollars, going to a war we have no business of being in, should fund all this quite nicely.  Before anyone gets their knickers in a twist, I support the troops, I do not support the war.


Deb
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lily tomlin

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Rate This | Posted 3 months ago

 

bren: your brother's story is far to typical. We need more rehab for those coming out of prison. I do my best to scare these young guys and the young girls when I am talking to them in the jail.  I hope I am getting throgh to some of them.


Ginny

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Rate This | Posted 3 months ago

 

This is a really good topic.  I also think that there should be some kind of plan, one where the people see that there are consequences for their actions or decisions, but also rehabilitation that fits their needs to help them to realize the other options that they have.  The people also have to be willing to receive help and work at it afterwards though, making it difficult.

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Rate This | Posted 3 months ago

 

I want an applaud smiley on this thing !  So anyway,  I know you can't hear it lisael269, but please know I'm applauding you, your efforts and rehab.  Good for you!


Deb
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lily tomlin

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Rated: +1 | Posted 3 months ago

 

Ginny, I believe you're one of the few who can get through to someone. Remember, they have to sincerely want help before they accept it. You can only do as much as you can do. It's a two way street. This is one of the problems that state and local government prefers to sweep under the rug along with homelessness and every other thing that doesn't meet their "profile of the day". There are programs that will feed you, educate you and get you a job making more money than we do. All for free. And did I forget to mention free housing? My step daughter is a case in point. She received all of the above from her state and ended up in a supervisory position w/out graduating HS. I guess success was too much to handle. Now she's trying to get disability in order not to work. It's a travesty and a tragedy. I can't get enough money to buy a postage stamp, much less go back to school. Just because I'm separated and not divorced, I am deemed to be making too much money to qualify. Kiss the back of my scrubs after doing an 18 hour shift when everyone got suppositories before I arrived!!! Prison can be a double edged sword; it can rehabilitate or make a bad situation worse. Young people going into the prison system are at risk from the ones who have been there and will remain there. Nightly sexual assaults sort of diminish a young person's self esteem, ambition and emotional well being. There has to be a separation of these cases from the regular penal system in order for any good to come of it. If the US would cease and desist from sending money to countries who hate us anyway, let them fight their own battles and for crying out loud, stop out sourcing our jobs, there would be funding to help the ones who need it and want it. The only way I see to help anyone in this position or any other for that matter is change the people who make the decisions. It requires involvement, commitment and voting in or out the ones who either help or hinder the greater good. How would anyone feel, if after serving their time, they were released back to the street with nowhere to go, no family, no friends, no money. They're only going to do what they know how to do. Alot of kids don't have a snowball's chance in hell these days.


A Proud Redneck Lovin' the Country Life

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Rated: +1 | Posted 3 months ago

 

Prison is effective, effective at making a criminal better!! For a few it can sway them from their ways.


Now jueve or jail on the other hand are not prison and they can give a taste of what limited freedom or paying your "debt" off to society is all about.   So not prison, or the "pen" as they call it, but jueve and jail can turn some if not most away from there path.


However years in the pen make someone "hard",  the pen being a place where someone can go in for a marijauana possesion and then get addicted to heroin within!!


They might arrive as a thug or punk only to  come out a full fledged gang member!!


If people with substance abuse problems want to be productive members of society, and go to treatment programs on probation then more power to them better that then let them rot in the pen while my taxes pay for it.

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Rated: +1 | Posted 3 months ago

 

I think that a lot of people who are put in prisons for a long time forget what it is like to be in the real world.. To them behaving badly gets them to the one place they know after so long.  I think that if we want offenders to benefit we should offer more programs that help them, including transitional programs from prison to the real world. How do you let a person out of prison after a 10-20 year sentence and expect them to be able to cope with all that has changed.  I would be afraid.. Imagine how much changes in one year. mulitply that by ten and besides drug addictions and mental health problems you have a time warp.  They fall back on what they know. 


"There are those that look at things the way they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not."
Robert F. Kennedy

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Rated: +1 | Posted 3 months ago

 

Good topic. Did  anyone else see the 48 hrs a few weeks ago? It was in New York. A community that was tired of their streets being run by drug dealers, rounded them up after getting extensive proof of their crimes. The community basically said you are either with us or against us. We will provide job training and a way for you to get away from this or you can go to jail.They provided counseling also. It was amazing . All of the dealers showed up and agreeed to the deal. A few did slide back into drugs, but the majority of them became part of the community. Murders and crimes are now down in this neighborhood, and the citizens feel safe and empowerd, while the former drug dealers feel valued and part of a community. The police and DA help the residents of this community set this up.


Claire Kruszka

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Rate This | Posted 3 months ago

 

So many good responses here....  I would think to take a young person, especially first-time drug offenders, to a rehab instead of prison.  It has been my experience in such a situation that if you catch them while they are young, quite possibly good things can be done.  Through rehab and counseling, most could find the folly of their ways and get a second chance at trying at life again.  Too often, once labeled as a felon will only create more distress for the person with even more obstacles to overcome.  Although most obstacles can be overcome, some are still a "life sentence".  On the other hand, if someone goes through drug rehab, most often times they replace the one addition with another.  Therein lies the problem of getting to the root problem why someone is addicted or chooses to self-medicate.  I still believe in the saying.. "To really want help, you have to hit rock bottom" in some cases, but not all.  I do agree with Ginny that sometimes being scared straight works well, especially with younger adults.   

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Rated: +1 | Posted 3 months ago

 

What a good topic for discussion. I believe whole heartedly that the punishment should FIT the crime. If they are first time offenders, should they really be treated as repeat or violent offenders? I don't think thats fair, I think everyone in these situations should be given another chance but with ALL the necessary help to get them on the right track. I think it is very sad that so many of nonviolent first offenders pay with many years of their lives, and then you have hard core criminals that get off scott free. I have always thought our justice system is too inconsistant and almost scary at times.


Cheryl


"Happiness is not a station you arrive at, but a manner of traveling."

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I have mixed feelings about this topic.


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